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1. 03:27 dreamreal jreicher: moonfall is a terrible movie that established the standard for terrible movies. Moonfall got five moonfalls. Magnolia not none.
2. 03:30 dreamreal Moonfalls isn't a measure of a movie's QUALITY - it's a measure of the opposite. Negaquality. Moonfall was dumb and bad and didn't even buy it's own crap. Godzilla was enjoyable but failed to buy its own bull: two moonfalls. That's how it be.
3. 03:31 dreamreal There are certainly other movies that get five moonfalls but it's a bar no movie should aspire to. Even movies that are bad on purpose believe in how bad they are: THEY struggle to get five moonfalls.
4. 04:12 jreicher Oh. Haven't seen it, but Green Hornet is the benchmark for me. Possibly the only movie I've ever seen that I couldn't finish watching.
5. 04:12 jreicher But it was a while ago. Maybe I didn't understand the humour.
6. 04:12 jreicher (at that stage in my life)
7. 04:13 johnjay jreicher: ah i forgot or blanked out you were in java. evening
8. 04:14 jreicher <sniff> Nice to be appreciated. <sniff>
9. 04:15 johnjay heh, no problem.
10. 04:16 johnjay i never read the channel rules before but it does mention droid isn't java.
11. 04:17 jreicher Were we talking about that? I have a very bad memory these days.
12. 04:17 johnjay apparently the runtime isn't the jvm or doesn't match it somehow
13. 04:17 johnjay no i just clicked the rules and was skimming them.
14. 04:19 johnjay i guess it raises the question of, is some language based on the jvm java? idk.
15. 04:19 jreicher You're allowed to sing the praises of Dynamo if you want though, apparently. Just learned that recently.
16. 04:20 johnjay i googled that term but i didn't get a certain result. is it an IDE?
17. 04:37 johnjay in any case I have some java books. but I don't feel like parting with them.
18. 04:42 deebo anyone using jdtls on linux for ai agents or neovim or something? what's the proper way to install it?
19. 04:47 jreicher I use jdtls with Emacs. I just untar it into a dir and go.
20. 04:47 jreicher It's fantastic.
21. 04:47 jreicher The DAP plugin for it too.
22. 04:48 deebo hmm lets see
23. 04:49 deebo argh the tgz archive was a trap, it had no leading subdir
24. 04:53 jreicher Why is that a trap? For me that makes it even easier. I unpack into "local"
25. 04:54 deebo everything else has given me the expectation that when i `tar zxvf app-1.2.3.tgz` it has a leading `app-1.2.3/` directory
26. 04:58 jreicher If anything it should be the reverse, in my opinion. That name is already on the tarfile. Why duplicate it inside the file also?
27. 04:59 deebo no comment on that, my expectation just has been that there is a leading directory :)
28. 08:58 jreicher deebo: did you get jdtls working? Sounded like you wanted to hook it up to neovim?
29. 09:04 deebo in this case claude code, waiting for request to get some more tokens to get approved :)
30. 09:12 jreicher You want to use both claude and jdrls?
31. 09:16 deebo claude seems to do better and use less insane commands when an lsp is available to get info about code
32. 09:17 deebo and it seems to be working now
33. 09:21 deebo though seems at least as invoked by claude via its official plugin, jdtls dumps a bunch of settings and other files in to the working dir, so have to figure that one out
34. 12:20 dreamreal johnjay: ~dynamo
35. 12:20 dreamreal ~dymano
36. 12:20 javabot dreamreal, what does that even *mean*?
37. 12:20 dreamreal damn it
38. 12:20 dreamreal ~dynamo
39. 12:20 javabot DynamoDB is a NoSQL database engine created by Amazon. It supports key/value and document models. It's very (VERY) scalable, but it comes at a cost: there is no guarantee WHEN things will happen, but THAT they will happen. See https://aws.amazon.com/dynamodb/
40. 12:21 dreamreal and android is not java, although it uses the java language; the JVM and its spec are what defines "java" and android does not run java bytecode nor does what it DOES run conform to the java specification, and without that, something ain't java
41. 13:21 Chronos The "official" Android programming language is Kotlin these days -- is that correct?
42. 13:22 Chronos Java is still supported for Android development, but _somewhat_ "deprecated"?
43. 13:22 dreamreal I dunno
44. 13:22 dreamreal I'm too good for android
45. 13:28 cheeser Chronos: #android-dev could tell you
46. 13:28 fizzie It's "Kotlin-first", officially, since 2019. https://developer.android.com/kotlin/first
47. 13:29 Chronos fizzie: Thanks!
48. 13:30 Chronos I blame dreamreal for my curiosity, based on the "and android is not java, although it uses the java language" message above!
49. 13:30 Chronos dreamreal: It's all your fault!
50. 13:30 dreamreal oh no. whatever shall i do.
51. 13:30 dreamreal I shall fan myself rigorously in horror or something.
52. 17:36 johnjay dreamreal: i think what i was trying to say is, is something still "java" if it runs on the jvm?
53. 17:37 johnjay meaning, is clojure or schala still "java"? that would be like saying c++ and c# are the same because they both run on the CLR
54. 17:37 Para Nope.
55. 17:37 Para Java is a language, bytecode is the intermediate which is executed on the JVM.
56. 17:37 Para Scala and Clojure both emit bytecode.
57. 17:37 johnjay right. but what i mean is java seems to imply both. the language and also the substrate of the JVM it runs on
58. 17:38 Para CLR's Microsofted term for bytecode is Intermediate Language.
59. 17:38 johnjay oh yes i remember now
60. 17:38 Para Which, btw, was literally invented by lawyers trying to hide the fact that they cloned JVM spec. Too bad photocopiers can photocopy logos in corners.
61. 17:39 johnjay i haven't read the CLR spec. is it heavily copied?
62. 17:39 Para Literally a photocopy of...whatever version it was.
63. 17:39 Para Microsoft was sued by Sun and had to pay a nice billion for infringment. Too bad it was too late at Sun's lifecycle and didn't really stop the demise, just slowed it down.
64. 17:39 johnjay that's... somewhat surprising. i thought microsoft at least pretended to innovate back then.
65. 17:40 Para They have done some changes and nowadays it's very much its own thing.
66. 17:42 johnjay i see
67. 18:11 dreamreal java is an overloaded term. You can have java-the-language, and java-the-ecosystem.
68. 18:11 dreamreal clojure runs on java-the-ecosystem, as does scala, and so forth.
69. 18:12 dreamreal pffft, MS tried to take Java over and extend it, Sun said no, MS said "fine we'll steal it and create our own" and thus the CLR
70. 18:13 dreamreal it's really good in a lot of ways, has features a lot of people kinda wish Java had, esp back then, but definitely caters to MS' model
71. 18:13 Para And some features have turned out to be a detriment, e.g. Java's type erasure in fact has enabled the implementation of dynamic languages on the JVM (before all the modern tricks like invokedynamic et al)
72. 18:14 Para ...alternative approaches to features in the CLR being a detriment, I mean
73. 18:39 Drixtan imo, the async/await is a blunter too
74. 18:39 Drixtan s/blunter/blunder
75. 20:09 jsmooth Is all web programming in java j2ee?
76. 20:10 waz nope
77. 20:18 comrad jsmooth: j2ee was back in the 90s
78. 20:27 Tenchi j2ee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031vKBPk5eA
79. 20:27 nevet YouTube: Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time | reactionvids
80. 22:13 jreicher johnjay: to expand on what dreamreal said, when languages like Clojure refer to targeting "Java the ecosystem" they mean even more than running on the JVM; they also mean providing access to interfaces and libraries written in Java.
81. 22:14 jreicher Para: why do you say type erasure has enabled dynamic languages? (Leaving aside the idea that type erasure is a behaviour rather than an inevitable property)