llanhmockhm, so is it me or does sdkman only have java 21.0.11, I'm having to go manual for 21.0.12.
NeXeNthat's what i see on their site (sdkman)
NeXeNRelease date: July 21, 2026 <--- probably why it's not on sdkman yet
nevetRelease date: July 21, 2026 < now has karma of -1.
llanhmockhm.. it's fine. just a matter of changing the patch version in my /etc/profile.local
llanhmockthen again - I never used sdkman to install java in the first place, though I have sdkman installed (on openSUSE). never did get back to trying the workaround for windows.
llanhmockor maybe I did try it and it still didn't work. something to do with 7z.
dreamrealI don't see 21.0.12, it may take some time to get uploaded too
dreamrealI'm excited, work might be going to 25
llanhmockwe did
llanhmockmy linux box is still on 21
llanhmockhm, now IDEA... updates all around
NeXeNi like sdkman, no joke. but yeah i mean a fresh drop might not appear for a few hours, i'm sure someone got the notification
llanhmockNeXeN: you use Toolbox App also? I'm considering it but I've done standalone for so long.
NeXeNnah
ParaJust musing, what would you use to interact with a WebSocket API within a Java app? Libraries, general design, etc.
dreamrealPara: cheeser's written one, I think
dreamreal~websocket
javabotWebsocket is a protocol to establish bi-directional connections over HTTP. Most HTTP libs support it. More information and tutorials: https://bit.ly/2OCJKX6 (Oracle) and https://bit.ly/2NocSN5 (eclipse).
nevetJava EE 7: Building Web Applications with WebSocket, JavaScript and HTML5
cheeseri helped build that spec, even!
cheeserjetty has a ws client, iirc.
hassoonws ?
cheeserwebsocket
hassoonah ok
* Chronos shakes fist at cheeser because ws can also mean WebSphere which produces PTSD
ballWasn't that IBM's web server?
dreamrealwhich one
dreamrealIBM doesn't have "a web server" - they'd use httpd now, and probably prefer nginx or caddy anyway
dreamrealif you're talking about an app server, they have a few of those too
dreamrealwebsocket's just a protocol for which there are multiple implementations in java
balldreamreal: I'll have to look up WebSphere then to see what it was.
dreamrealwebsphere is one of theirs, yes, but the discussion was websocket, not websphere
ballPerhaps that's just down to when I walked in then.
dreamrealfrom the logs, the only "web*" is websocket in the last day or so
dreamrealoh, I ignore that fool! (actually, I just missed it since weechat didn't distinguish the action clearly enough for a casual scan)
dreamrealin that case: retracted, I was trying to provide clarity and not correct you, and that was invalid
dreamrealyou weren't wrong in the slightest
ballNo offense taken. I'm new here. Saw something today about an opportunity to learn Java. I'm having a think about that.
dreamrealit can be great! Got any questions? Plenty of really bright people here to ask, and I'm here too
ballIs there a surplus of people who can code in Java? I'm wondering how difficult it would be to get started professionally.
dreamrealI don't think "being able to code" is the measure. Being able to think and express well is. I don't think there's a surplus of THOSE people, and Java's an environment that needs people as much as any other, and it's pretty popular.
dreamreal~tiobe
javabotThe TIOBE index tracks the popularity of various programming languages on a month-to-month basis. It doesn't track "the best" but just the popularity of various languages. See https://tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ for more.
* ball ponders
dreamrealball: The thing is, and stop me when you like: I know a bunch of languages moderately well. I suck at tech screens, though, because I have to learn each one over again for the screen unless it's something I've done recently, yeah? Like, sit me down in a python interview and you're going to spend ten minutes while I remember if it's fun or def or what, and I'll be thinking "wait, how do I coerce types
dreamrealagain..."
dreamrealBut the thing is, I know *what* to do, and where to look for it, so an interview that endures me remembering *syntax* - the easy part - usually comes off going "okay, this is a candidate we could use," and I have receipts that I can't quite recount publicly for $reasons on this. THAT's the skill to cultivate; Java's just... a form of it.
ballI've heard about software development interviews. They don't sound very nice.
dreamrealPeople suck, and they often don't know how to interview, and a lot of them see it as an opportunity to pull rank over new people.
dreamrealIt's unfortunate and I hate it, but I don't mind THOSE INTERVIEWS very much, because 1) I've probably done more than they have, I have rank they don't, and 2) anyone who shows their asses to me like that is mostly telling me I do not want to help them succeed.
ParaI have C programming book from the nineties which spends first third about how abstract thinking and logic works.
ParaAnd basically comes with a warning that if you can't get through these sections, programming isn't for you.
dreamrealhah. Which book is it, para?
ballK&R?
dreamrealCan't be, K&R doesn't do that
ballIt's so long since I picked up a copy.
ParaSome Finnish teaching book so kinda lost reference. Probably at least inspired by whatever English material was available at the time, first printing predates Internet.
dreamrealK&R's great but K&R C < ANSI C, and ANSI C has long exceeded what K&R was, IMO
ballMy Algol book predates the Internet ;-)
dreamrealPara: oh, so bork bork bork bork neener bork?
ParaExcuse me, that's Swedish.
ballISTR that's what prompted the 2nd ed. of K&R book.
dreamrealPara: finnish, swedish, polish, same difference, right?
Para(in Sweden the Swedish chef is apparently Norwegian, and in Norway Danish...if I remember this correctly)
* ball looks sad
ParaSomeone compared Finnish to gnomes chanting spells recently. And Polish to summoning demons.
ParaI don't know how this relates to Java, but I do know that smart people with good skills on the most common proglangs will be useful in the future.
dreamrealball: I have both copies floating around, both ANSI and K&R, and the thing is, part of me really loves K&R because it's so tied to the machine
ballJust detached enough to be somewhat portable.
ballIt's not /that/ far removed from assembly language.
dreamrealyeah. The way K&R mandated pulling values directly off the stack like that... is bork bork bork chef's kiss, esp for people like me who cme to it *from* assmebly
* ball nods
ballI did Z80 and 8086 assembly
ballI don't /think/ I did much 6502.
dreamrealI did z80 and 65xx, ended up doing 68k and a few others
dreamrealCommodore 64, baby! ... and I have one on my desk RIGHT NOW
ball68k must have fealt pretty damn luxurious compared to the 8-bits.
dreamreal68k and then there was SPARC - talk about luxury, sparc felt magical
ballThe register windowing was interesting.
ParaFriend told me during our teenage years that I "would probably be a really good C64 assembly programmer." To this day I have no idea whether that was an insult or a compliment.
dreamrealso, um, using my awemusoe powers of observation: if you're able to talk competently about algol, ansi vs K&R, z80... java's gonna be trivial for you, and if you can think besides, you'll be fine
balldreamreal: Thanks, that's encouraging.
ball...and right now I'll take all the encouragement I can get.
dreamrealand if it makes you feel any better, this is a lot what a GOOD technical interview should feel like
GreenResponseheh, Java is called “blue collar worker” language in the Cult Repo documentary
dreamrealthat's because it doesn't know what the fucking fuck it's talking about
dreamrealpardonnez moi francais, etc
dreamrealfunny thing about low expectations; they're self-fulfilling. I do stuff with java that some people think is beyond impossible: "that'll be slow! It'll take you... what do you mean you're done already?"
ParaWell, it's kinda like the Clojure documentary which omitted the entire Europe originating ecosystem because apparently flying around USA was fun but not going even once over the Atlantic or even having a Zoom call was seemed as necessary :)
ballI should go and get my daughter from the library. I'll be back later, hopefully.