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  1. Para I like how LLMs sometimes as a side effect produce truth bombs. Today's such is "Ansible runs non-interactively and cannot handle sudo password prompts."
  2. Bombe I play EVE Online, and it has a thing called “Ansiblex Jump Gate,” and I have to think of Ansible every time I come across one.
  3. Para That's fitting, as EVE Online's server gave us such coding as horror headless python; a variant of python which doesn't use stack.
  4. Bombe I don’t even know why you would want that.
  5. Para Well, EVE Online's server models the universe's starsystems as individual instances of a python script.
  6. Para So all what happens within one system is managed by one script. Thus scaling is done by just running these instances and in case, say, Jita, gets very resource hungry, move other systems away from that node to another by restarting the system script elsewhere in the cluster.
  7. Bombe What does not having a stack have to do with that, though?
  8. Para This is how it worked originally, the headless part saved memory.
  9. Para This is software design from 20+ years ago, mind you :D
  10. Para I hope they've fixed at least some of that.
  11. Bombe I am aware of most parts of that, yes. Systems are still being moved around between machines, in case of higher load.
  12. Bombe Hmm, isn’t the stack related to threads? Like, every thread has its own stack? Or is that a Java-thing and Python handles it differently?
  13. Para Even a main thread has a stack. Unless you do the headless thing.
  14. Bombe Yeah, well, a main thread is a thread, and as such it would have a stack. But that still explains nothing about the stackless Python. :)
  15. Para Not in stackless python :)
  16. Para Or rather the stack is just a ringbuffer of one. And somehow CCP got it working.
  17. Bombe That still only makes sense if they are multithreading heavily. In Python. Is that what they did?
  18. Para One process per system.
  19. Para So the OS makes it one thread per system.
  20. Para (ish)
  21. Bombe That makes even less sense. If you only have a single thread, it doesn’t matter if you store shit on the heap or on the stack, you need the same amount of memory. [confused]
  22. Para This was the way to multithread python apps for a very long time.
  23. Para With only one stack frame available you don't get tracebacks and all that stuff.
  24. Para So the exceptions thrown would be just "exception thrown: died"
  25. Para Another aspect of EVE's server design has always been that it runs exclusively on RAM disks.
  26. Para They were at one point RamSan's (Texas Memory Systems nowadays) biggest question.
  27. Para ...question, I mean customer. I was reading a doc while typing :D
  28. Para Although their use of RamSan-400's was questionable, as it didn't help with the stability that everything was loaded into RAM, including databases, and stuff either worked or went into cascading multi-system crashes all the time.
  29. Para RAM eviction was effectively the same as randomly dropping some random starsystem out of cluster :D
  30. Bombe CCP have made a lot of questionable decisions over the years… :D
  31. Para The company was founded by an Ultima Online griefing guild which got banned from OSI servers :D
  32. Para So it all fits.
  33. Chronos On a related note, I've been wondering why so many developers have been choosing C# over Java for their MMORPG servers.
  34. dreamreal C# is pretty good, for one thing, and for another, it was better and more responsive to programmers than Java for a long time.
  35. Para Gamedev is Windows based.
  36. dreamreal Microsoft actually had a POINT with J++ - it's just a philosophical question of what's more imprtant. And for MS, and C# users, it was "can we run stuff we want to write?" and Java's answers were "Well, generally, yes, but it's going to be archaic, for one thing, and we're going to continue to cater to two other runtime environments you as a programmer don't actually care about"
  37. Para Lots of tooling is built around .NET these days.
  38. Para It's really not that more amazing or weird than that.
  39. Inline so target + env rather
  40. dreamreal and again, C# *is* pretty good, it learned Java's lessons well, and used those lessons to tie developers to a retarded platform
  41. dreamreal Running .net on nonwindows is possible, of course (see Mono) but it's stupid and I do not forgive Miguel for it
  42. Inline lol
  43. dreamreal Iget the technical challenge and reasoning for it, but he's basically being a lapdog for MS
  44. Para Mono gave us Unity, in a way.
  45. dreamreal Aren't we supposed to say that in diversity is strength?
  46. Para Diverse backgrounds coming together for a common cause, not just for diversity alone.
  47. Para ...we had a notion at work this week that people don't bash PHP anymore. It's becoming forgotten.
  48. dreamreal Hell, it's in use everywhere
  49. dreamreal *I* run PHP
  50. dreamreal I don't write much of it - I have one repository done in PHP and honestly it kinda sucks
  51. dreamreal every PHP upgrade I gnash my teeth and grow a beard just so I can tear it... and I update my PHP installation
  52. Chronos Assuming said MMORPG servers run on Linux, wouldn't Java generally be a better choice over C#?
  53. Chronos Or does C# run just as well on Linux these days?
  54. Para They run on Windows Server.
  55. Para It's all horrible.
  56. dreamreal generally yes, and Java's execution profile is BETTER than C#'s, but... what para said
  57. Chronos Para: Oh dear, now that's a terrible idea.
  58. Para Gaming as a profession is dirty.
  59. Para The only important factor is "this runs on as many Windows PCs as possible"
  60. Para (or at least has been until very recently)
  61. Para Note: "runs", not "runs well"
  62. dreamreal runs > not running
  63. dreamreal "runs well" is an afterthought to MVP
  64. dreamreal most java programmers should know that :D
  65. dreamreal Well, I have finished The Boys on Amazon.
  66. dreamreal That's it. There's the news.
  67. GreenResponse I know you’re Star Wars fan, have you watched Maul Shadow Lord?
  68. dreamreal I haven't watched any star wars stuff outside of andor season 1 since the last jedi or whatever it was
  69. Para I've been telling dreamreal to watch Andor season 2 several times.
  70. dreamreal I keep wanting to watch andor season 2, it's up next in the queue now that the boys is out of the way
  71. Para The Boys sure had a fifth season.
  72. dreamreal And I'm listening! I just have a queue to get through and I watch it in small bursts
  73. dreamreal Para: right?
  74. GreenResponse I’m into animation, and this is CGI animation a’la Clone Wars, very interesting
  75. Para GreenResponse: It's the same art pipeline they started refreshing after Bad Batch.
  76. dreamreal Hrm. I didn't even watch the clone wars; I watched the sequel trilogy mostly because I hoped they'd find a story to tell but they didn't. Andor was good, though, and Para tells me season 2 is good, but...
  77. Para It's been incremental with the Tales series ever since, and it seems quite obvious they're shifting back to more animation content as it's probably still cheaper than live action and their story telling techniques are more tuned for animation nowadays anyway.
  78. dreamreal I suffered through ST:SA, and apparently they've already filmed season two of THAT
  79. Para And of course Dave Filoni did start doing Spongebob sooo...
  80. dreamreal I don't know how I feel about them having filmed season two of a show that suffered so badly from season one
  81. dreamreal it feels incredibly arrogant
  82. GreenResponse yep, everybody is shredding Mandalorian and Grogu right now…
  83. dreamreal and ST:SA was, um, very pretty to watch but man, what a crap show
  84. dreamreal I can't shred the new movie, haven't seen it and won't judge it without seeing it
  85. Para dreamreal: Star Trek Discovery had one famous line of dialog, "yum yum". The Boys season 5 has just single "yum" as dialog at one point.
  86. Para I'm going to start rating shows by number of yums.
  87. dreamreal Yeah, the writers for s5 kinda, um, blew their wad, one could say
  88. Para Which one even is ST:SA...oh it's the wannabe Rick and Morty.
  89. Para (new season of that starts next week btw)
  90. dreamreal "Let's draw dialogue from the seven words you can't say on television and that's it, let's make it so nobody thinks at all, and let's try to misunderstand the groups we're despising as much as possible"
  91. dreamreal it wasn't even good as an allegory
  92. dreamreal ST:SA is starfleet academy
  93. Para My carrying theory is that Boys s5 budget was so cut that they didn't even do cross checking between episodes.
  94. dreamreal scooby doo taken to the 30th century, including idioms and styles and concerns from 2023
  95. Para There was just one big arc which got cut into pieces and individual episodes were then fleshed out and shot.
  96. dreamreal their set budgets and CGI budgets were bonkers, though
  97. Para Case in point: Ambrosius
  98. dreamreal all that blood
  99. Para Why, that's spoilers. If anyone cares.
  100. dreamreal I was unsatisfied by that storyline
  101. dreamreal not much of a spoiler
  102. Para On a big plus, the actors did well IMHO.
  103. dreamreal it was supposed to be "at last, yeesh" but was not, it was just there
  104. GreenResponse Scooby is nice, the best is What’s New and Incorporated, of course
  105. dreamreal apparently anthony starr pushed back on what the writers wanted to do
  106. Para Erin Whatsherlastname of course had kinda dull outcome because of her at the time undiagnosed illness + material given was...I don't know, probably a wet napkin with some scribbles on it.
  107. Para Jack Quaid got the most out of the show, probably.
  108. dreamreal I guess, but they wrecked her character a while back
  109. Para 1) got to show that he can actually act and commit to a character 2) fame 3) a wife
  110. GreenResponse speaking of Starr, Ringo went full country right now
  111. Para (I'm not saying he couldn't act before, he's just got that nepobaby ceiling to break through)
  112. GreenResponse haven’t listened to his latest longplay tho
  113. Para Also I'm delighted that Jack Quaid keeps visiting Red Letter Media doing stupid videos with them :D
  114. dreamreal Ringo Starr can do whatever he wants, it's what you get when you're one of the best drummers in the last century
  115. Para Could even claim the whole millennia. I doubt there's some ancient mesopotamian from 800 years ago who'd be better.
  116. GreenResponse heh, speaking of drummers, Regular Show has been resurrected with Benson the park manager, former drummer of Hair to the Throne
  117. GreenResponse like I said, I’m an animation weirdo
  118. dreamreal Para: well, the purpose of drumming has changed
  119. dreamreal I kinda think Ringo's among the best *and certainly* most influential drummers of modern music
  120. dreamreal in terms of influence there's no comparison, period
  121. dreamreal he's #1 and there's nobody even close. In terms of talent, he's probably top 5.
  122. Bombe I heard from a reputable source (The Beatles) that Ringo wasn’t even the best drummer in The Beatles.
  123. GreenResponse yep, he had his limitations
  124. GreenResponse yet, he was band’s mascot, that’s huge role
  125. dreamreal Bombe: also very well known to be Paul McCartney taking the piss
  126. dreamreal mein Gott, you guys know NOTHING about drums
  127. dreamreal Ringo was 1) the best drummer in the country when he was in the Beatles and 2) a great drummer, period
  128. Bombe Luckily for us, this is #java, not #drums!
  129. DoofusCanadensis I was starting to wonder
  130. Para dibs on drums4j
  131. Bombe Dibs on jrums!
  132. DoofusCanadensis I vote for the former
  133. Bombe Pff. https://imgur.com/a/oANrxDk
  134. Bombe Look at my jrums! My jrums are amazing!
  135. Para it could be jRum
  136. Para a highly specialized brewing assistant
  137. Para What can it help you with? Rum. What else? Nothing!
  138. DoofusCanadensis do one thing and do it well
  139. Para hah
  140. Para Amazon Prime's put the final big scene of the Boys to youtube.
  141. Para 3 minute clip
  142. Para Like...what is this marketing strategy, here's the three minutes that matter, please watch our other stuff?
  143. Chronos Para: I have seen *so many* Windows games that *should* work perfectly fine in 1/4 the RAM + integrated graphics but... don't, because nobody cares about efficiency.
  144. Chronos (Going way back in the conversation there, heh)
  145. Chronos Interestingly... Java MineCraft runs perfectly fine on machines a lot of people would consider potatoes these days.