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15:55 pengu1nx ~pastebin
15:55 javabot Please paste your code and any errors online. For runnable classes, try https://ideone.com/ . For general code and errors, use https://gist.github.com or https://dpaste.org/
15:55 nevet https://gist.github.com "Discover gists" || https://dpaste.org/ "dpaste - RED ALERT"
19:13 saml to convert Map<String, Object> to https://sdk.amazonaws.com/java/api/latest/software/amazon/awssdk/core/document/internal/MapDocument.html , do I need to write recursion myself?
19:13 nevet MapDocument (AWS SDK for Java - 2.42.7)
19:13 javabot saml's title: "MapDocument (AWS SDK for Java - 2.42.7)"
19:13 Para I'm like 100% sure you're doing something wrong.
19:14 Para 1) The package has "internal" in it 2) AWS SDKs are meant to be used through various clients and they produce the necessary objects themselves or have builders available for whatever calls you do, in both parameter and lambda forms.
19:14 deavmi Nobody is on this network
19:15 saml i'm trying to use bedrock with mcp. https://www.javadocs.dev/io.modelcontextprotocol.sdk/mcp-core/1.0.0/io/modelcontextprotocol/spec/McpSchema.JsonSchema.html
19:15 javabot saml's title: "McpSchema.JsonSchema (Java MCP SDK Core 1.0.0 API)"
19:15 saml to use mcp tools with bedrock, I have to convert mcp tool's json schema to awssdk Document
19:16 Para MapDocument#mapBuilder()
19:17 Para That said I don't think that's entirely correct as the package still does say "internal", which feels very wrong.
19:18 dreamreal why not just use jackson and serialize the map if it's the right shape
19:18 Para There's tons of example over at the AWS docs have you looked at these? https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sdk-for-java/latest/developer-guide/java_bedrock-runtime_code_examples.html
19:18 nevet Amazon Bedrock Runtime examples using SDK for Java 2.x - AWS SDK for Java 2.x
19:18 saml I can get serialized json string. But I don't know how to convert the string to awssdk Document. https://sdk.amazonaws.com/java/api/latest/software/amazon/awssdk/core/document/Document.html#mapBuilder()
19:18 nevet Document (AWS SDK for Java - 2.42.7)
19:18 javabot saml's title: "Document (AWS SDK for Java - 2.42.7)"
19:19 Para You probably should drop the LLM for like a week and read the actual docs directly.
19:34 Para saml: What are you building even, what's the goal?
19:43 saml building llm agent thingy that supports mcp. and spring ai was okay upto certain point and I have to use bedrock directly
19:46 Para That doesn't sound like a goal. It's missing the why. But okay.
19:53 dreamreal an agent that... supports MCP? A tool? Or the deployment for it?
19:53 dreamreal Because i can tell you straight up that spring AI managed "support MCP" fine. As far as deploying it in AWS, that's a completely different thing.
20:30 jbosmans saml, for starters 2 questions i guess, 1) what are you trying to accomplish high level, as in end goal? 2) for what purpose?
20:33 DoofusCanadensis 1) Lancelot of Camelot 2) Quest to seek the Holy Grail
20:34 dreamreal something something bint with a sword
20:46 cheeser blah blah blah watery tart ...
20:53 Para I'd be kinda open for strange women lying in ponds distributing swords as basis for a system of government at this point.
21:15 jbosmans DoofusCanadensis, I salute you !
21:15 jbosmans did i ask stupid questions?
21:16 dreamreal not at all
21:17 jbosmans ~dreamreal++
21:17 nevet ~dreamreal now has karma of 2.
21:17 javabot jbosmans, what does that even *mean*?
21:17 jbosmans darnit
21:17 jbosmans what's cooking?
21:17 dreamreal I'm tryna spin up an actual website wooo
21:17 jbosmans apparently java 26 is about done
21:18 jbosmans woo for websites !
21:18 dreamreal I suck at 'em
21:18 jbosmans how so?
21:18 dreamreal This is gonna be horrible but functional
21:18 jbosmans wait
21:18 jbosmans CSS
21:18 jbosmans :-D
21:18 dreamreal yeah well
21:18 jbosmans functional ftw
21:18 dreamreal I have a neurological condition that predisposes me to being ungood at such things
21:18 Para dreamreal: spin...a WEB site, huh
21:20 jbosmans i always thought if you have too much time to spend on your website you probably don't have much else to do
21:20 jbosmans i realize that's probably a pre-llm opinion:)
21:21 dreamreal Well, if the purpose is presenting content, getting it right is an actual skill
21:21 DoofusCanadensis I'm trying to convert my CV to HTML to put on a web site
21:21 dreamreal see: nielsen, jakob
21:23 jbosmans dreamreal, website for what ?
21:23 DoofusCanadensis cheese
21:24 Para +r?
21:25 Para highly specific
21:25 jbosmans DoofusCanadensis, that was really :-)
21:26 dreamreal jbosmans: nevet
21:26 DoofusCanadensis cheese, nevet. probably the same thing
21:27 dreamreal surprisingly not :D
21:29 jbosmans i somehow thought nevet was on github
21:29 jbosmans but i stand corrected
21:31 dreamreal it is
21:31 dreamreal https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news . nevet is just an instance of bytecode.news.
21:31 javabot dreamreal's title: "GitHub - jottinger/bytecode.news: The nevet codebase, generally for bytecode.news · GitHub"
21:31 DoofusCanadensis this would be a website for everything that nevet keeps track of. not the source code
21:31 dreamreal I loved sun back in the day, so why use simple naming conventions, right?
21:31 jbosmans ahh didn't know
21:32 jbosmans one must think about the names !
21:32 jbosmans i hear you :)
21:32 dreamreal it gets worse, actually
21:33 dreamreal the ACTUAL CODEBASE internally is "streampack," bytecode.news is the layer that handles content management as a specific version (v5, AKSHUALLY) and nevet is *a presentation* of how it looks on IRC or slack :D
21:33 dreamreal now shut up, I know
21:34 jbosmans legacy screws us all
21:34 jbosmans for good reasons (?)à
21:34 jbosmans -à :-)
21:34 jbosmans someday i'll change some codebases packages
21:34 dreamreal the lifecycle of nevet goes back to about 2006, maybe even earlier if you consider the concept from purl
21:34 jbosmans *packagenames
21:34 dreamreal the first java iteration was based on OSGi
21:35 jbosmans damn, that's two years before my oldest client's codebase
21:35 Para my names are super boring these days
21:35 jbosmans osgi
21:35 jbosmans those were the days (and also not)
21:35 dreamreal Para: I decided the name of the website and then wrote the new rev around it
21:35 Para backend-docstore-db, you'll never guess what it does
21:35 dreamreal I hate naming things
21:36 dreamreal okay, I'm getting some SSR features in, then I'm going to see if I can get this mofo deployed
21:37 dreamreal the SSR stuff isn't going to work at first, it'll just BE there so I can eventually nudge nginx to using it, but the site should work regardless. I will warn you: it will look like ass.
21:38 Para I wonder if I should do event sourcing to my upcoming insanity of a webpage.
21:38 dreamreal The API is working, though, which is the biggest jump: the idea is that people who're GOOD at UI can take the API and build something useful from it, and the reference UI (the bit I'm building now) can LITERALLY be a testbed for features
21:38 Para That's the way to do it tbh.
21:39 Para Did it in my previous project as well, it was even written in a bit of user facing doc that if you don't like it, here's our API, let your nerds know :) Not exactly in these words but the sentiment was there.
21:39 dreamreal it's set up so you can have svelte.bytecode.news, react.bytecode.news, whatever, they all talk to api.bytecode.news
21:39 dreamreal and if someone's going "man, MY UI skills are the best," I don't care, put it out there, I'll deploy it
21:40 jbosmans dreamreal, what kind of stack (if any) are you using?
21:40 jbosmans for the website ^
21:40 dreamreal jbosmans: give me a few minutes and I'll publish the branch
21:40 jbosmans best answer ever
21:40 dreamreal it's vite for the reference
21:40 jbosmans what, react SSR :o
21:41 dreamreal pffft
21:41 jbosmans i'll wait
21:41 jbosmans :)
21:41 dreamreal SSR for this is literally "wrap <html><title/><body> around the generated content"
21:41 dreamreal but I'm not hooking SSR in at first
21:42 jbosmans i'm totally not opinionated
21:42 dreamreal that's a fairly deep nginx config to trap a crawler and forward to the SSR endpoint
21:43 dreamreal the thing about the reference UI is it's all client-side
21:43 jbosmans which is fine and makes sense i'd say
21:43 dreamreal like, it has NO content, so SEO wouldn't work at first: it WILL work in that crawlers DO run javascript but it's much slower
21:43 jbosmans crawlers have caught up afaik
21:43 jbosmans a long time ago
21:44 dreamreal Yeah, but they're SLOW.
21:44 jbosmans most crawling will be for *.php files anyway :)
21:44 dreamreal J!JHG#&!^# just remembered ANOTHER feature I need out of the gate.
21:45 jbosmans "just vibe code it" I only read that somewhere
21:46 DoofusCanadensis do you not have a design document?
21:46 dreamreal well, that's most of the UI :D
21:46 jbosmans one needs a proposal.md
21:46 jbosmans and design.md
21:46 dreamreal DoofusCanadensis: yes, it's written in neurons and synapses!
21:47 DoofusCanadensis and hopefully not a divorce.md
21:47 jbosmans and tasks.md
21:47 DoofusCanadensis maybe a prenuptual.md
21:47 jbosmans too late for that ?
21:47 dreamreal I've been married for 33 years, if she's gonna divorce me it's been a great run
21:47 jbosmans damn, beat my 21
21:48 DoofusCanadensis at 28 here
21:48 jbosmans together, not married
21:48 jbosmans house & kids is married enough ;)
21:49 dreamreal yeah, I had no comment 'cause it's not my monkey, not my circus
21:49 dreamreal if you're happy and stable, I stop caring
21:49 jbosmans i appreciate that, and likewise
21:49 dreamreal the only real danger zone for that stuff is fatherlessness for kids
21:49 jbosmans yeah
21:50 jbosmans we'll get married, easiest way to arrange *
21:50 dreamreal That turns out to be the easiest discriminator for ALL KINDS of problems
21:50 jbosmans haven't gotten around to it (yet)
21:50 jbosmans we share one bank account
21:50 dreamreal it's not a guarantee, to have a father present, but no father == much higher chance of social ills
21:51 jbosmans appreciated
21:51 jbosmans the plan is to get it arranged
21:51 Para Do the kids know they're married to the house?)
21:51 dreamreal Well, like I say, it's not an issue to me
21:52 jbosmans Para, they're 6 & 10 so hopefully no
21:52 dreamreal I'm glad to be married but whether OTHER people are married or not is irrelevant to me
21:52 jbosmans dreamreal, 100% agree
21:52 dreamreal okay, this thing is about marinated enough
21:52 Para I've had plenty of people in my family tree who've followed the "Hey honey, we've been together for 40 years, I guess we're kinda married." "Yeah, I guess?" "Should we swing by the magistrate next weekend and make it official?" "Sure, I was meaning to go that way anyway, I need a haircut." story.
21:53 dreamreal running a system test as sort of a last gasp
21:53 dreamreal Para: haha
21:53 dreamreal sounds like my grandparents
21:53 jbosmans Para, all is well that ends well ? :)à
21:53 Para On a bit of less funny side, usually that happens after first death scare, but YMMV.
21:53 dreamreal they got married by a judge's WIFE because the judge was drunk, I made a point out of asking my mother and uncle if they were bastards because of it. They, uh, did not appreciate this.
21:54 jbosmans dreamreal, damn :)
21:54 Para In Finnish legislation marriage is technically speaking a sentence by courts, and so is divorce. This is just so that the related laws can be enforced on you legally.
21:55 jbosmans not that i'm the most subtle in such things either
21:55 jbosmans Para, it's a legal arrangement in belgium too
21:55 jbosmans "best arranged" if something goes wrong
21:55 dreamreal jbosmans: my grandparents thought it was kinda funny: they were also some of the most gentle, kindest people I've had the blessing to know. My OTHER grandfather met them before my dad and mother got married, expecting to dress them down and incinerate them as country bumpkins, ignorant wretches
21:56 jbosmans oh :-/
21:56 dreamreal I mean... my paternal grandfather was apparently A MACHINE. He called up johns hopkins one day and said "here's what you're going to do" and they did it
21:57 jbosmans different times? :-/
21:57 dreamreal so he met my maternal grandparents, one with an 8th grade education, thinking "i'mma destroy these people and shut all this down" and two hours later everything was good, no problems at all
21:57 dreamreal well, he was, like I said, a machine
21:57 jbosmans these days there's a bunch of words for that
21:57 jbosmans not way back then
21:57 dreamreal HE had a second-grade education but would call *literal* kings and they'd answer - johns hopkins wasn't exactly a stretch for him
21:57 jbosmans i should say "a bunch of potential words"
21:57 dreamreal He had a line to the windsors and the dude in monaco
21:58 dreamreal bautista, etc
21:58 jbosmans crazy
21:58 dreamreal he was something else
21:58 dreamreal terrifying man, at 5'6, but he was always nice to me
21:58 jbosmans so you have royal blood in your veins?
21:58 dreamreal god no
21:59 dreamreal we're ashkenazi jews, emigrated out of poland in the early 1900s, we're peasants
21:59 jbosmans "but he was always nice to me"
21:59 jbosmans that's all that matters?
21:59 jbosmans over here we were all peasants
21:59 dreamreal It certainly was to me
21:59 Para There seems to be an interesting cohort of people who are a bit more stout and shorter than the average and somehow they seem to be more like condensed persons than just what their height is.
22:00 dreamreal My grandfather and six others fled poland in 1903, found their way to TX, then 30 years later the 200+ people they'd left behind disappeared, not sure what happened :/
22:00 jbosmans :(
22:01 dreamreal wierd, right?
22:01 jbosmans i visited warshaw 20 years ago
22:01 jbosmans yeah :(
22:01 jbosmans nazis did terrible things in poland
22:01 dreamreal we're actually not sure what happened: they either assimilated so completely they were lost, or were "assimilated" so completely they morphed into soap
22:01 jbosmans but i'm guessing this was before that
22:01 dreamreal no, they disappeared around 1939-1942
22:02 jbosmans :(
22:02 dreamreal for some reason I take stuff like that a little personally, go figure
22:02 jbosmans yeah, makes sense
22:02 dreamreal I keep wondering what having a large family would be like
22:02 Para afaik all archives are available online for those things, but finding the original leads can be nigh impossible
22:02 Para It becomes a game of likelihoods and deads ends and...yeah.
22:02 dreamreal Para: that's what I mean: yad vashem should have it, but I have no references to START with
22:02 jbosmans poland had it terrible during WW II
22:02 dreamreal so I don't know if I could trace them
22:03 dreamreal instead, I memorialize it as "never again" and mean it.
22:03 jbosmans may it be so
22:03 Para There's some really large brush strokes someone could guess, but that's just guessing. Like, specific region probably went to specific camps etc.
22:03 dreamreal I wish no-one ill - I have friends in germany whose progenitors were indeed literal nazis, we each live our own lives - but I remember
22:04 dreamreal Para: "family history" says ploiesti or treblinka, but ... well. "Family history." Nobody knows.
22:04 Para (fwiw I don't have any personal contact to this whole part of Europe's history, but nazis do fucking suck)
22:04 jbosmans it's .. difficult
22:04 jbosmans time does go by
22:04 jbosmans and things also happen in our day & age
22:04 dreamreal And it's cylical. 1941 was not that long ago.
22:04 jbosmans yeah, totally not
22:04 dreamreal Barely a blink, really, and only the worst in a long string of such events.
22:05 jbosmans in belgium we have a bunch of people from ukraine
22:05 dreamreal holy crap, I just pushed all this
22:05 dreamreal slava ukraini. I feel horrible for those people.
22:05 jbosmans not to mention all other nationalities
22:05 jbosmans will be nice when "things get better"
22:05 jbosmans but not for now it seems
22:06 Para dreamreal: Heroyam slava, indeed.
22:06 jbosmans well said <dreamreal> slava ukraini.
22:06 Disconsented Nice to see some support for Ukraine here :D
22:06 Para Someone once said that world has major war every time the oldest of the previous ones die. Which is...what it seems to be like.
22:07 dreamreal Disconsented: I don't suppport war but I support the people. I send money to the red cross in ukraine routinely.
22:07 dreamreal I ain't rich but I do what I can.
22:07 Para It's literally midnight over here so I don't have much brain power left, but it's no coincidence how we reacted to the full-scale invasion here in Finland and how strongly we feel about supporting Ukraine.
22:07 dreamreal Para: I was and am furious about it.
22:08 dreamreal My feelings about the various wars right now are complex and uncomfortable.
22:08 jbosmans Para, is the sea near helsinki frozen? I guess not anymore these days?
22:08 dreamreal BUT: I'm for ukraine, and screw the IRGC.
22:08 Para I'm kinda trapped in the "some of these things are super obvious and should just be done, damnit" mindset.
22:09 dreamreal I hate war but an unwavering dedication to AVOIDING it is a good way to end up in a forever war with no resolution. if you're going to fight, end that shit. Permanently. Leave a mark. The loser should wake up thinking "I ain't-a gonna war no more."
22:09 jbosmans dreamreal, i follow, but when did it ever happen like that?
22:10 Para jbosmans: It doesn't freeze over properly in southern seas, and we of course keep trade routes open, but it's as frozen as it could be.
22:10 jbosmans venezuala??
22:10 dreamreal jbosmans: it's happened a lot. We tend not to remember it well because the losers fade into history.
22:10 dreamreal Remember Assyria?
22:10 dreamreal The Medes?
22:10 jbosmans Para, it mostly was when i was in helsinki 20yrs-ish ago
22:10 dreamreal jbosmans: https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/tree/feature/reference-ui-169
22:10 javabot dreamreal's title: "GitHub - jottinger/bytecode.news at feature/reference-ui-169 · GitHub"
22:11 dreamreal the PR is running now, thinking about merging :D
22:11 jbosmans mmmm, guess that comes down to how one defines war?
22:11 Para https://browser.dataspace.copernicus.eu/?zoom=14&lat=60.16095&lng=24.94398 and hit the big green button :)
22:11 nevet Copernicus Browser
22:11 dreamreal jbosmans: we haven't really had a resolved war in America since WW II.
22:12 dreamreal We learned a stupid lesson from the french and it's crippled us ever since.
22:12 jbosmans Para, omg it's date based? :-D
22:12 jbosmans dreamreal, nor did we in europe
22:13 Para jbosmans: Copernicus is the ESA weather satellite system, that website, Sentinel Playground, is a browser for the data.
22:13 jbosmans well, I think we didn't start one
22:13 jbosmans Para, yeah i recognize the name
22:13 jbosmans great, didn't know that
22:13 Para It's quite cool :) Anyway, what was the topic if any
22:13 dreamreal jbosmans: *nod* well, it's understandable: france lost a generation of men in WW I and it utterly capped them for WW II: if they'd have said "damn the torpedoes, screw it, Hitler, we're coming for you" in 1938 there'd have been no world war
22:14 jbosmans dreamreal, yeah agree, france had the way better army in 1938
22:14 Para The one thing which past four years has taught me and a lot of other Finns is that what we have especially in national defense and have had and built in the past 70 years is just simply different.
22:14 dreamreal we lost a lot of men in WW II and decided to act the same way: "we don't want to commit a lot of men to total war, we might lose some! Eeek!" and that's a doctrine that Rumsfelt incorporated into Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan...
22:14 Para The full 180 in "those Finns are crazy and paranoid" to "those Finns sure seem to be right about all of this" was nuts.
22:14 jbosmans Para, yeah Finland is close :/
22:14 dreamreal Para: the finns are respectable
22:14 dreamreal The UK, not so much
22:15 dreamreal "We WOULD send our one destroyer to defend our national interests but we can't, it's not ready and asking the workers to MAKE it ready might offend them"
22:15 jbosmans dreamreal, it makes sense not to want to sacrifice ones children/partners/..
22:15 dreamreal jbosmans: absolutely.
22:15 jbosmans but somehow things still get started
22:15 dreamreal It's not that I don't understand the impulse.
22:16 dreamreal I have kids: I GET IT.
22:16 jbosmans right now i don't understand it
22:16 jbosmans any of it i guess
22:16 dreamreal Well, imagine you have a bad dog
22:16 dreamreal but you love dogs
22:16 jbosmans from ukraine, to israel/gaza, to iran
22:16 dreamreal what do you do about the bad dog
22:16 Para I think Poland only just recently passed us in number of artillery cannons/howitzers.
22:16 jbosmans dreamreal, the allegory doesn't hold imho
22:17 jbosmans i understand what you mean i think
22:17 jbosmans but we're all still people
22:17 dreamreal jbosmans: well, I think it does: you have a rabid actor out there who's more than happy to die as long as you die too
22:17 dreamreal I'd far rather they feel differently
22:17 dreamreal I have no desire to see people harmed, even people who say they hate me
22:17 Para Not proportionately, just literally number vs another. Also as a (poorly trained) grenadier I have a soft spot for mortars and I could go on this tangent forever. Our green steel products are nice.
22:18 jbosmans dreamreal, i'm wondering now if you're talking about iran or russia?
22:18 dreamreal but if it's "allow them to harm me" or "kick them out of the future" I know which one I'd choose
22:18 Para Stephen Fry had a nice quote about fighting for the other person's right to disagree or something like that.
22:18 dreamreal jbosmans: yes
22:18 jbosmans Para, 2 great lines you posted there
22:19 jbosmans dreamreal, understood :)
22:19 dreamreal I'm willing to allow people with whom I disagree to live. Others seem unwilling to say the same. Those others are not rational beings with whom I can survive.
22:19 jbosmans russia got away with a lot tho right
22:19 jbosmans and keeps on doing so
22:19 dreamreal Screw russia. Yes, they've gotten away with a lot. if we can kick the IRGC out of power, russia's capabilities drop like a stone.
22:19 jbosmans i understand iran is not my friend
22:21 jbosmans Para, that would be great <3
22:21 dreamreal WhatI'd love to see is the Iranian people rise up and kick the IRGC into the suez. Let 'em swim. or not. Who cares. And then if they can use their capabilities to build - and I think they can - then they're welcome into the new world.
22:22 dreamreal Every Iranian I've ever known has been awesome.
22:22 jbosmans so would i, i'm afraid it's iraq #2
22:22 jbosmans well, #3
22:22 dreamreal jbosmans: well, there're a LOT of differences between Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan
22:22 Para The whole Middle East has always been a confusing mess faction wise.
22:22 jbosmans only winner so far is israel (hate to say it)
22:22 dreamreal Iran has a VERY large and very professional underclass under the IRGC's thumb
22:23 dreamreal I don't hate to say it! Am yisrael chai!
22:23 jbosmans understand
22:23 Para and by mess I mean stuff like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#/media/File:Syrian-War_main_Participants.png
22:23 nevet Syrian civil war - Wikipedia
22:23 dreamreal You'd think all those guys, losing to tiny israel over and over and over and over again, would get the hint
22:23 jbosmans dreamreal, netanyahu tho
22:24 dreamreal yeah, well
22:24 jbosmans i'll take "well" :)
22:24 dreamreal when the wars stop so does he
22:24 dreamreal I don't think he'll be excessively missed
22:24 jbosmans you really believe that?
22:24 dreamreal Given that I know Israelis, yeah
22:24 jbosmans given all ?
22:24 jbosmans i hope so
22:24 dreamreal they're tolerating him now because he's useful
22:24 jbosmans i really do
22:25 jbosmans Para, the mess is basically endless
22:25 dreamreal he's not really a moustache-twirling snidely whiplash anyway, but ... eh, if gaza had managed to keep it in its pants he'd already be gone
22:26 jbosmans dreamreal, how many people died so far between israel & gaza sinds the hamas attack? Naively divided into two numbers?
22:27 dreamreal roughly 82k
22:27 Para A bit more locally I hope Orban...I don't know, takes a helicopter trip to Moscow or whatever, just leaves the scene.
22:27 dreamreal 6k in israel, 75k in gaza
22:27 jbosmans ^
22:27 jbosmans Para, agree
22:27 dreamreal israel's had casualties since oct 7 but not many because they prioritize protecting their people and not slaughtering anyone else
22:27 dreamreal have you seen the casualty ratios in gaza?
22:28 jbosmans so 7% israel (which is too many), 93% palestine (which is too many)
22:28 dreamreal jbosmans: and how many would gaza have had to suffer without that 6k number in israel?
22:29 jbosmans dreamreal, how far back do you want to take it ?
22:29 dreamreal I had a conversation with someone on like oct 20 or so that year who was going "well, Israel needed to get out of gaza!" and I was like "cool! Yeah, too bad they did that in 2005"
22:29 jbosmans it's a screwed up situation, i'm happy i don't have to fix it, i couldn't
22:29 dreamreal jbosmans: As far as you like. The history there doesn't speak well for the arabs.
22:30 jbosmans but with netanyahu things are out of control imho
22:30 jbosmans and that's after sharon
22:30 dreamreal There's a lot of blood and it's unfortunate but the arabs are the bad guys.
22:31 jbosmans i think both sides can eventually blame the other for all that's happened, it's just been too much
22:31 jbosmans all the rockets whatnot
22:31 jbosmans settlements
22:32 dreamreal Well, here's a core difference: Israel targets militants.
22:32 jbosmans i'm afraid netanyahu has political reasons to keep waging war(s)
22:32 Para It's also become generational on both sides. Or all sides? Even that could be debated, I suppose, but it's maybe not the most important split to focus on.
22:32 deavmi Israel targets militants.
22:32 deavmi Goy slop lie dreamreal
22:33 dreamreal jbosmans: That's possibly true but leading israel around like that's kinda difficult
22:33 jbosmans Para, yeah, in the end someone can always blame someone else, it's been going on so long. But imho israel lost the higher ground,alas
22:33 jbosmans *moral higher ground
22:34 jbosmans dreamreal, yeah true, especially today i guess
22:34 Para My method has been on thinking about the logistics etc. instead of morals, and trying to see the what-ifs.
22:34 dreamreal deavmi: well, okay, the ratio of militants to civilians in gaza over the past two years is something like 1:1 - not quite, but really, really close. This is according to Hamas' own numbers; this isn't a hard count, but this is what THEY say. The expectation for a "GOOD" urban civilian casualty ratio is 1:9 - 9 civilians for one combatant.
22:34 deavmi You take a look at Gaza and tell me each and every house bombed house a militant. Never seen such a dlinquint remark come from somebody. dreamreal
22:34 deavmi Get off your goy train mate, you;re making a fool of yourself. Nobody cares about might makes right, and just an FYI the IDF has bombed several churches in Gaza.
22:34 deavmi "A land without a people (lie) for a people without a land (lie, see Hollywood and every country ever gladly accepts 'Jews')
22:35 Para Lets say the entirety of Gaza just blips away. It's now 300 feet of ocean. So Israel wins. I would imagine they'd do pretty well and live with modern values and so on. But that's just one regional problem, now there's all the other ones left.
22:35 dreamreal deavmi: as a Jew who's an emigrant generationally, and one who knows his people's history, suggesting we're accepted everywhere is sadly ironic
22:36 dreamreal BUT
22:36 dreamreal YO
22:36 dreamreal here's the thing, and I'm at fault: this is all politics
22:36 dreamreal and #java is sort of politics-free
22:36 dreamreal let's all get back on topic
22:36 deavmi I'm white and live in a majority black country. I don't feel like a vicmtim. Stop playing the card. So what, people can hirt your feelings. Grow up, I've been called or sorts of things. You're just a weak man.
22:36 deavmi Get some balls
22:36 jbosmans Para, well put. Would be nice to have a two separate state solution
22:36 dreamreal deavmi: did I say I was a -wait this is still politics
22:37 dreamreal jbosmans: right? I'd love a workable two-state solution. Israel handed Gaza over in 2005; see how well that worked for everyone.
22:37 dreamreal POLITICS.
22:37 dreamreal Enough.
22:37 jbosmans deavmi, please keep it civil
22:37 Para Anyway, I'm off to bed.
22:37 jbosmans nn Para
22:38 Para I'm gonna bake some cinnamon rolls tomorrow. I recommend you get some as well.
22:38 jbosmans 3rd bbq of the year tomorrow
22:38 deavmi Eu tenho dizido o que eu preciso. Ate logo
22:38 jbosmans but i'll keep your suggestion in mind :-D
22:39 jbosmans deavmi, i'm interested, what does that translate to?
22:39 deavmi "Ek het gese what eh het nodig"
22:39 deavmi I have said what I needed
22:39 deavmi There, 3 translations
22:40 jbosmans thanks :)
22:40 deavmi Totsies/bye
22:40 deavmi yep
22:40 deavmi cya
22:40 jbosmans cheers
22:41 jbosmans also cheers to things improving globally
22:43 deavmi may the lives of innocent people be spared, and may people speak before shooting eachother.
22:43 deavmi Cheers to that indeed jbosmans
22:43 jbosmans well put deavmi, second that
22:46 dreamreal deavmi: from your fingers to god's ears
22:47 jbosmans "make it so" as picard would say
22:49 jbosmans dreamreal, unless intentional you may want to update the top title in README.md on the bytecode.news repo? Unless i should file a bug for that
22:50 jbosmans also, i love a good multi module project :)
22:50 dreamreal which one?
22:50 dreamreal File an issue, please
22:54 jbosmans alas, haven't used github in ages and am thus logged out
22:59 dreamreal Well, PM me the details and I'll file it