jreicherJust like none of our persistent network connections ever drop.
* arkadio joined #java
NeXeNsomehow the place i rent an office switched the wifi from spectrum to starlink and it's latency is bonky dolls
* iwtga joined #java
* X-Scale joined #java
* Pixi` joined #java
* Pixi joined #java
* Pixi` joined #java
* Pixi` joined #java
* Pixi joined #java
jreicherNeXeN: If it's terminal work that is suffering, I have a drastic solution for you. One that I've been using myself every day for years. Emacs has a remote system called Tramp, and when it's used for shells all the CLI echoing is local, so it's instance. It only sends chars down the wire when you hit return, and since the entire command gets sent together and most of the time a short wait for the response doesn't matter, latency hurts a
jreicherlot less.
NeXeN* NeXeN laughs
NeXeNyeah no, but yeah i've had that happen
NeXeNi used to use something funky back in the day when ssh first came along and it was actually processor intensive to encrypt everything, and it was a local thing to echo stuff for you so you don't get disoriented (over dialup none the less)
NeXeNalso i don't know if i would ever use emacs. took me a long time just to like vscode
NeXeNi'm trying to remember how to get the ddl for a table in pgadmin ....struggling...ugh gotta read the docs
* kelt0m joined #java
jreicherThe main selling point of Emacs is something that VSCode doesn't have: you can look at (and modify) the source code for the application you're using. So if there's some (undocumented) behaviour that surprises you, you can go and find why it happened. And then you can change it if you like (without having to restart the application).
NeXeNwhat do you mean by that?
NeXeNdecompile a binary ?
NeXeNor watch some telemetry?
jreicherNo, it's not that. Have you ever worked in a Lisp environment? That's what it is.
jreicherThe source code is in memory at all times.
NeXeNi have not used any modern lisp languages, but i have duplicated a lisp machine (a competitor to the von neumann architecture, and also an alternative to a turing machine)
jreicherNot a Lisp language, a Lisp environment. It's a bit different.
NeXeNit sounds like what i did work with. you essentially have your code branches and data all shaped like Ys and you stitch them together into this weird btree or maybe it could have more than 2 branches i forget
jreicherAnd then you can modify the btree in the processes memory and its behaviour changes immediately?
NeXeNit was for a weird interface on a spic i had worked on, and you had to get this to compile down and then feed it thru some what was that data cable called, pcmcia something and then you can do all sorts of stuff to modify how the machine is operating
NeXeNand by machine i mean an industrial machine that made fake christmass trees from ribbon and wire
NeXeNjreicher: you mean repl essentially?
NeXeNbecause technically code in any form, it is in a binary state that you can modify in situ and change the "code" vs the "data". just ask any kid who's twerked a game with a hex editor
NeXeNor any script kiddie trying to make a sploit
jreicherThat's getting closer, but imagine the code of the repl is also subject to the repl. So, for example, imagine the prompt string was hardcoded in the repl (as opposed to being a configuration item somewhere) but you could change that hardcoded string and the repl started giving you a different prompt immediately.
NeXeNi am not sure it's the same, because i know a lisp machine and lisp programming language are commonly derived but different
jreicherYour hex editor analogy is also close, if you are applying the edit to the process's code segment live while it is running, and the process's behaviour changes accordingly.
jreicher(Rather than applying the edit to a binary file and then loading it after)
* ramontjunior1 joined #java
NeXeNyeah fo sho
NeXeNone could take and somehow hotreload the binary or whatever, rehash, but i dunno i don't get into all that. but i know that when i worked with a lisp machine and the very dry manual that helpfully taught you it wasn't van neumann do not expect memory, do not expect job control nothing
* Pixi` joined #java
NeXeNyou had to actually program using these dip switches, hundreds of them scattered across the card, they all did various things to configure your IO, the rest you had to load via a laptop and it was tedious and error prone. i don't know how much wire and ribbon i wasted, but i freestyled it. they engineered it precisely on the old system, but those system boards cost 15k a pop, while the spics i think were somewhere around 700
NeXeNit's amazing how being 20 years old and having the confidence of an idiot can actually pay off. that was a really lucritive job and i did not know wtf i was doing, but i read everything even went to the library to checkout EE publications
NeXeNlater went to another manufacturer in town, walked right in demanding to speak to the floor engineer, and they let me in and we talked in the conference room and i walked out with 3 contracts to replace something on their labelling machine
NeXeNany time you didn't have data or a function you had to terminate any dangling Ys and there were hundreds
* ramontjunior1 joined #java
* ramontjunior1 joined #java
* ramontjunior1 joined #java
* Pixi joined #java
* MonsterAbyss joined #java
jreicherNeXeN: I never had the opportunity to work on lisp hardware. I'm a little jealous. ;)
NeXeNwell it wasn't hardware, it was software. ironically they designed things in the app on the laptop (a von neumann machine) and you had to load it onto the lisp machine
NeXeNwhich was i guess a vm?
NeXeNit was freakishly hard for me, but it made so much sense, you could debug stuff just intuitively
NeXeNlearning to terminate with IO or a terminator was what unlocked it. before that i was stuck like chuck sweating bullets with this high dollar contract and these older guys who knew what they were doing and i didn't
NeXeNso every time you go to load it you gotta switch all these dip switches on this chart, and get them all perfectly right or you don't know what might happen. and then when done, you had to switch 'em all back, then you had to press a button and then go to the machine control panel and press go and get ready to hit stop because you're probably going to ruin some wire and ribbon and it'll come out looking like a booger not a branch
jreicherHow did you do debugging? The reason I ask is that could be precisely what I was just trying to describe for the Emacs experience, where you are debugging Emacs itself, while inside it.
NeXeNscrew up one dip switch, you have to call the engineer and he's pissed, he gotta reset the machine with some manual process
NeXeNwell lisp is like you have branches. they lead to functions or data. your data flows down this btree into the inputs, and along the way the data is mutated in situ, and you can swap stuff around conditionally and a few rudimentary things but there's no loops, at least you certainly would want to avoid that i think. and it's just this decision matrix the machine uses all it's sensors on the I side what the O should be doing
jreicherHuh. You're probably describing a Bohm tree.
NeXeNwell that's how they had it represented. i don't recall that but i'm sure it was current back then
NeXeNyou had essentially things like sensors will input, and that is like an event, it triggers a chain, so then you branch maybe with an if statement, because a function can come back and return a true or false, and so then you follow the path, and it's like following ants to the sugar cube. a bug is easy to tell because the ants ain't walking the right way or something. when you look at it in the software it's represented, i guess asyclical
NeXeN graph ?
NeXeNs/asy/acy/
NeXeNanyways, i didn't get to play with it, once i had installed the expensive app and got it talking to the controller, i would book out and get paid. the engineers would twiddle with it hours on end, but it looked cool
NeXeNi did physically have to climb into greasy and dusty cob-web laden machines and replace a box with another box, because i was paid by the company to do so
NeXeNoh, i do know what bohm trees are, i had to look it up. yeah i guess it is kinda like that. i'm not strong in math, but i love btrees and yeah so it's one of many cool things you can do with them
NeXeNjreicher: are you big into emacs or do you use something like intellij?
* Pixi` joined #java
jreicherI pretty much live in Emacs these days, and what I described above is why. It's actually a relief from almost every other application then when (not if) something strange happens, I can find out why.
* node1 joined #java
NeXeNi'm trying to say icad was the app, but i still can't find a screenshot to confirm, but i found bunch of stuff on wikipedia that might sound right, but there's no way for me to confirm. hrmm i am curious now what it was called
node1Hello wonderful people!
* PocketKiller joined #java
* handicraftsman joined #java
NeXeNhi
node1Hi NeXeN
* lostlazy joined #java
BombeNeXeN, that all sounds incredibly weird and I love it!
NeXeNit was aiight. i much rather prefer doing things in java
* sbalmos_ joined #java
* acidjnk joined #java
* node1 joined #java
node1so what new in Java?
comradnew creates an instance of an Class ;)
node1lol that it do always
* MikeBux joined #java
BombeNeXeN, yeah, it absolutely sounds like nothing I would ever want to have been a part of, but it’s amazing that I can hear stories about it. :)
* dob1 joined #java
* iwtga joined #java
* Cae2 joined #java
* mwnaylor joined #java
* jreicher joined #java
* hwpplayer1 joined #java
jreicherjavabot: you're back!
javabotYo momma's back, jreicher
jreicherStill no logs on the website though.
jreicher~jep1234
javabot'1234' is not a valid JEP reference.
jreicherHmm. I did that right, didn't I?
jreicherjavabot: wow. I didn't realise you had such sass.